Worship wars, 19th century style

Dan Kimball posts some excellent examples of how the church has always opposed change in it's music. You can click to his 2 articles (and some good comments) here and here. Here's a few snippets:

Charles Finney in 1835 wrote that there were still in his day "many churches who would not tolerate an organ. They would not be half so much excited to be told that sinners are going to hell as to be told that there is going to be an organ in the meeting house."

How about this letter:

"I am no music scholar, but I feel I know appropriate church music when I hear it. Last Sunday's new hymn - if you can call it that - sounded like a sentimental love ballad one would expect to hear crooned in a saloon. If you insist on exposing us to rubbish like this - in God's house! - don't be surprised if many of the faithful look for a new place to worship. The hymns we grew up with are all we need."

This letter was written in 1863 and the song they were concerned about was the hymn "Just As I Am".

While this got some laughs out of me and a few others I read it to, it was strangely encouraging to me that change in our methods and styles have always been a struggle, but thankfully change comes. Granted, I never want to lose proper orthodoxy, I am glad that the dissenting voice above didn't have their way. Think about it: Could you imagine a Billy Graham crusade WITHOUT "Just As I Am?" I couldn't.

Trying to wrap my head around Lakeland

I am trying to wrap my head around the Lakeland Revival. Let me first say that I have been to Brownsville twice ('98 and '02), and I have done alot of reading, watching, and listening to things going on in Lakeland because in my position I have alot of people asking me what I think about it and some are asking for help in discerning things they are seeing on Godtv and Youtube.

The truth is, I'm not ready to answer that yet. I would like to slowly, SLOWLY walk through some things I have read and get to a decision.

I would like to present portions of a post on a COG forum by Buck Marshall, a COG pastor and a ministry colleague of mine in college. It's one of the best summaries on a criticism of Lakeland yet. If you link to the full article, there's alot more.

Todd Bentley was completely foreign to me. I had NEVER heard of him before and had absolutely no opinion of him whatever. So….I watched. There were several things that struck me as problematic.

1. There was a lack of Biblical foundation but rather the experiential was exalted.

2. The demonstrative reaction to prayer was vaunted while the sick went unhealed.

3. There seemed to be a focus on Todd Bentley as though he was the force behind what God did.

First, Todd’s teachings border on heresy. He speaks of trips to the third heaven in a fashion that can only be described as New Age. It in fact mirrors that of those who practice out of body experiences, astral projection, and channeling. It does not follow along the lines of other experiences such as John’s in Revelation. Further, he makes claims of the Paul/Abraham co-authorship of Hebrews as revelation from his own “trips” to the third heaven. I find that completely untrustworthy. He focuses on Angels in such a manner that would make any Biblical angel rebuke him for attributing to them what only belongs to God. He prays to them instead of God. That is not merely extra-biblical like say, “gold teeth filling” but is absolutely UN-biblical! The messages he has preached are so un-sound in doctrine and Biblical theology it makes one wonder how he began preaching in the first place. He even claims to have been possessed with 25 demons AFTER he was a believer and operating in the prophetic! This is simply impossible according to scripture. There are many passages to debunk that assertion but look no further than 1 Cor. 10. So, with no sound doctrine to offer and erroneous teachings at best and heretical theology at worst I began to really pay attention to this minister.

Secondly, there were many, many, many people who shouted, danced, and fell down but I didn’t see one miracle. I wanted to. I really wanted to. There are so many cameras there. There is so much attention focused on this thing. It is not like the Toronto or Brownsville revivals in scope. Those were an earlier time technologically. Now, this revival is taking advantage of live broadcasting not just on TV but on satellite networks, streaming live on the internet, posting clips on YouTube, podcasts and it is even available on your cell phone. So, I really wanted miracles to happen as a sign to unbelievers….but they didn’t. Oh, there were plenty who claimed to be healed but they were of the variety that could not be verified. So, Iet’s not doubt them. Let’s suppose that God is healing them through the ministry of this guy. So, when they wheeled the girl who had cerebral palsy onto the stage….I wanted to see her limbs begin to change. I wanted to see her gain proper motor function. Nothing happened. When the girl came onto the stage with a tumor that was literally HALF the size of her head….I wanted to see it shrink like the ones the other people claimed had. He told her it would happen later in her bed. That was convenient. WHY….we have the cameras ready….let’s see this healed and send it to every cell phone…every iphone….let His glory be on display and become the most downloaded video on YouTube since Star Wars Kid and the Numa Numa Guy. Now, I understand that not everyone gets healed and all the disclaimers we in the 21st century American church use to stop praying for the sick and not feel bad. And, I suppose that would not have been as big a deal if he hadn’t done what he did. He prayed for those two and then immediately instructed the cameras to get a shot of his stage. Many people on the other end of the stage had fallen down and were shaking on the floor. He said, “Look what God has done. Look at how my stage is messed up.” No, turn the camera back on these two girls who desperately need a touch from God and let’s not stop praying until they are healed! Let’s get all the millions of people watching on tv’s, cell phones and computers to start praying for these two people until they are healed! I can’t shake these people….I pray for them every time I think of them. I guess I want less show and more prayer. Not BAM!!! and fall down….but more focused, earnest, continuous prayer.

Thirdly, it just seemed to all be about him (Todd). His anointing, his stage, his ministry, his experiences, his opinion, and his support. I am really hungry to see revivalists and even a lot of Christian television ministers with less ego. Philippians talks of Jesus humbling, lowering, and emptying himself. It is not a position of weakness. Yet, those who stand in a place of leadership too many times do not follow his servanthood example.

So, I am disheartened by this revival. The fault lies not with the people who are going. It lies with the leaders. I have real questions about this minister. I will not go so far as denouncing him as a fake…I just think he has really bad theology and the church as a whole has done a very bad job of training him and/or holding him accountable. We can point fingers…but, we have a lot of that in the CoG as well. We have a lot of Pastor’s with really bad theology. They fill our pulpits every Sunday and no one writes one word about it. I think that is probably the greater problem.

Ha. Ha.

C.S. Lewis and conceit

Quote provided by inwardoutward.org....

clipped from www.inwardoutward.org By C. S. Lewis When I first became a Christian, about fourteen years ago, I thought that I could do it on my own, by retiring to my rooms and reading theology, and wouldn�t go to the churches and Gospel Halls; I disliked very much their hymns which I considered to be fifth-rate poems set to sixth-rate music. But as I went on I saw the merit of it. I came up against different people of quite different outlooks and different education, and then gradually my conceit just began peeling off. I realized that the hymns (which were just sixth-rate music) were, nevertheless, being sung with devotion and benefit by an old saint in elastic-side boots in the opposite pew, and then you realize that you aren�t fit to clean those boots. It gets you out of your solitary conceit. Source: Surprised By Joy

Henri Nouwen on substituting love

I am beginning to think that every new Christian should read Nouwen....he is climbing up there with C.S. Lewis in my opinion as essential Christian thinkers. This Nouwen quote is courtesy of inward/outward.

clipped from www.inwardoutward.org What makes the temptation of power so seemingly irresistible? Maybe it is that power offers an easy substitute for the hard task of love. It seems easier to be God than to love God, easier to control people than to love people, easier to own life than to love life…. The long painful history of the Church is the history of people ever and again tempted to choose power over love, control over the cross, being a leader over being led…. Much Christian leadership is exercised by people who do not know how to develop healthy, intimate relationships and have opted for power and control instead. Many Christian empire-builders have been people unable to give and receive love.

Emerging Wednesday- Christianity and social justice in a postmodern world

Vanguard Church discusses some of the issues facing the church in the field of social justice-- specifically, how should the church converse with postmodern people in regards to social justice? Here a few snippets that grabbed me.

clipped from vanguardchurch.blogspot.com Ministry that is properly situated to reach postmoderns embraces postmodern ideas about evil. We affirm the “will to power” that points out that we human beings (both individually and in our institutions) consistently abuse power in order to oppress others and to further our own agendas. We affirm that we should be careful not to trust others too far. We affirm that Auschwitz and brutal World Wars and even current empirical power grabs by the governments of the West prove that our supposed morality is questionable at best. We affirm that even those who are religious are not immune to the bent human need for power A Christian movement that displays the grace of Jesus Christ in righting injustices speaks to the postmodern heart and mind. It says that God knows that the world is not the way it should be. It says that God is indeed doing something about it. It says that the ultimate solution to these problems is God…God hanging on a cross.

An atheist's experience

This is a quote from an atheist that visited 30 churches to study what impressions they would leave him with. Look at what he was left with....

clipped from www.internetmonk.com Clearly, most churches have aligned themselves against non-religious people. By adopting this stance, Christians have turned off the people I would think they want to connect with. The combative stance I’ve observed is an approach that causes people to become apathetic—and even antagonistic—toward religion as a whole. Many evangelical pastors seem to perceive just about everything to be a threat against Christianity. Evolution is a threat. Gay marriage is a threat. A swear word uttered accidentally on television is a threat. Democrats are a threat. I don’t see how any of these things pose a threat against Christianity. If someone disagrees with you about politics or social issues or the matter of origins, isn’t that just democracy and free speech in action? Why do Christians feel so threatened? You need to spread the message of Christianity—the message being what Christianity stands for—loving each other, helping the people around you. Those are things everyone can get on board with.

Emerging Wednesday- a sad definition

What is a Christian? This clip is from Ryan Wiksell's blog, asking not what we Christians would define ourselves as, but what we may have allowed the world to define us as. Read on....

clipped from www.thecoredowntown.com Christian: (n) An adherent to the western religious paradigm known as Christianity, identified by numerous cultural indicators, including: mandatory attendance at weekly religious performances, neat and tidy appearance, chipper attitude, straight-ticket Republican loyalty, big house less than 25 years old in an excellent school district, well-dressed and well-behaved children, homogenous circle of friends, SUV or minivan ownership, abstention from alcohol, tobacco and crude speech, upwardly mobile, and others of the like. Common usage: “I can’t let my family find out that my boyfriend got me pregnant; they’re Christians.” “I don’t want to work Sundays anymore; Christians are the worst tippers.” “Christians think that they can start a war, and God is always on their side.” (Source: The Non-Christian Worldview Dictionary.)

Emerging Wednesday- what it heresy? apostasy? schism?

Just about everyone throws around words without knowing what they really mean-- especially religious folks. In reading all about the emerging movement, and theology in general, it's amazing how quickly the words heretic, apostasy, and schism are so commonly invoked. But what do they mean? Well, here you go.

clipped from kenn.typepad.com

APOSTASY, the most grievous of the three, is a complete and utter rejection of the faith (“denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ”). That is clearly not the aim or purpose of the emergent church movement as I read them.

SCHISM means separating from the universal Church because of unwillingness to be constrained by unity. I think the emergent movement might be guilty on this count, but so is Calvary Chapel, and most of the Christian church. More on that some other time.

HERESY is an intentional or rejection of an essential element of the faith as outlined in the three creeds (Apostle’s, Nicene, Athanasian) embraced by all four streams of the universal Church (Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican). False doctrine and heresy are synonyms.

Women in ministry?

I won't get heavily into this debate, because I don't have the energy at the moment. If you want to get some interesting reading on the topic, check out Scot McKnight's blog-- he has been posting about women in ministry over the last few weeks.

I want to share this article that Scot references in one of his posts from The Dallas Morning News. Southwestern Baptist Seminary recently fired a female professor who was a graduate of the seminary and was hired by the seminary to teach Hebrew. But the university fired her because she is a woman, and a woman cannot teach a man according to the seminary and Baptist theology in general. They claim a "lapse" in practice of their beliefs as a reason why they hired her in the first place.

Apparently, this is also causing serious debate amongst Baptists as well, because the central argument is whether or not Pauline texts regarding men's and women's positions in ministry refer to the office of pastors only (thus a woman can't pastor a man) or also includes teachers as well. SBC pastor Wade Burleson gives a great argument about it on his blog. I don't know much about Wade, but apparently his quest to get to the bottom of the professor's firing is becoming quite nasty, and the seminary is even beginning to accuse him of slander, but then refuses to release previously public meeting records that would prove Burleson's claims. Doesn't sound very Christian to me.......

I'm still digesting the article, so I will hold my position....for now.